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If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. look at the difference! Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. B. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Expansion Valve. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. What is a T/C?4. CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. I used a full can of evap cleaner. I think the way to go here is1. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. It won't be optimal, though. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. Are you sure you have an R4? Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Can I use the one for the R-12? If 50 degrees across the cond. Look at where the lines will end up. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Bookmarks: Digg; del . You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. |. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. Related products. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. Jun 19, 2007. of refrigerant insulation tape. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Any advice appreciated. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. #4. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. ambulance tailgate conversion Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Safe but sorry! We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. But R22 is almost equally damaging. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. Thanks for the input. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. Biggest you can fit in there is best. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. . Nice to use new gadgets! asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . I mean, really a lot. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. The car never overheats, if that has any import. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. This is because R134a. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Helical and Serpentine coils. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. Hence, let us continue to fix it. Very interesting! These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Yes, this was a smokers car. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . . If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. had writing on the side that said R134a. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . 1) Warm Air From Vents. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Add to cart. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? . After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. CR4P). The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Just leave it alone for now. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. This may be the source of your oil confusion. I'll put the relay on for that. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. Electric fans do wear out. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. I think so. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Answer: OK, I'll bite. In short, NO! After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. Yep, definately not a meat locker. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. 2) Frost on the Vents. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. I'm not sure. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. What is needed? Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. gital control scheme. Is there a graph? For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. Can I use the one for the R-12? The crossover point is approximately at 64F. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees).