Joseph and Hyrum Smith announce the excommunication of Hiram - reddit Well see when fall rolls around. is the queen taller than the king in chess; all inclusive wedding venues under $5,000; david meade obituary Im one of those independents who voted for Obama in 2008, and Im not thrilled with how that turned out. Its a tough road. In Newts words: it may make me more normal than somebody who wanders around seeming perfect and maybe not understanding the human condition, and the challenges of life for normal people.. Newt, when asked how he could be unfaithful and give a speech on family values: It doesnt matter what I do. Utah businessman now back in the fold - Deseret News . lose my respect the more I learn. Honestly I think a pragmatic technocrat might be what we need right now. What if Newt were one of us? Worst. Privacy Policy. Does it make us less likely to have creepy uncles? My unfamiliarity with these practices makes them seem extreme and even psychotic. Santorum would be my pick if he wasnt so far behind in both primary and national polls, therefore a vote for him is a vote for a losing strategy. [3] In June 1829, Smith was baptized in Seneca Lake, New York. He couldnt function well until it was fixed. Hyrum was one of the original creators of the popular Franklin Day Planner. If Newt were not running against one of us, and following directly if he didnt occasion a need to compare once again Evangelical mental states to our own (a cultural addiction), Im pretty sure we wouldnt think more than twice about Newt. Gunlock - Hyrum Wayne Smith, age 76, of Gunlock, Utah died, surrounded by his family in his home at Eagle Mountain Ranch, on November 18, 2019. All of these are checks. Who knows if he was an innocent or complicit in Joe's schemes? I have lots of sympathy for the moral difficulties involved in keeping ones integrity through these brutal election processes. He was excommunicated but after several years got his membership back. After retiring from FranklinCovey, he co-founded several other entrepreneurial ventures, his most recent being a company called Ampelis, which continues Hyrums interest in helping individuals and corporations gain control of their lives. Hyrum W. Smith - Wikipedia The quoted line you use is telling in its total lack of irony and self awareness: Theres no one else who can say what I can say. davenport funeral home crystal lake, il obituaries In 2004, Smith had written another book, Pain Is Inevitable, Misery Is Optional, in which he discussed his excommunication and his rejoining the church. Hyrum was passionate in his effort to make a positive difference in the world. Probably it depends more on where we live too, small towns are more judgmental and know each others business. [6] As Smith fell to the floor, he exclaimed, "I am a dead man," as he died. I am curious about Brither Alvin. There are so many reasons Gingrich is revolting. Its situations like this that lead me to believe that when a crime is commited like molesting your daughter, go to the police first then the Bishop. His grandson, Joseph Fielding Smith also served as president of the church from 1970 to 1972. I dont think the Newt vote is just about Mormonism. Hyrum W. Smith is the founder of Franklin Quest Company and hosts seminars focused on productivity and belief. While Evangelicals and Mormons both talk family-centric, Mormons add teeth to it. Well certainly not us Mormons, thats for sure. When a person who is truly repentant of what they did, they would not need any governing authority over them telling them that they need to repent or to then go reconcile their wrong doings. Reading his process back to church membership filled me with empathy and admiration, knowing how difficult and humbling it must have been. While divorce is not uncommon, ward members often assume the wife is in the right, and we even assess worthiness for temple worship based on ones familial relationships and for those obligated to pay child support, whether they honor those obligations. (Remember the old adage: If a man is cheating on his wife WITH you, he will cheat ON you.). M. Russell Ballard, the current Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the LDS Church, is also a direct descendant of Smith. Its hard to imagine Tuacahn without Hyrum, Kevin Smith said in a statement. I know plenty of Mormons who liked Newt although most of them came of age after Newts meltdown in the 90s. A few days after graduating from OCS at Fort Sill, Oklahoma as a Second Lieutenant, he married his sweetheart, Gail Cooper on December 21, 1966 in the St. George Utah Temple. by Hyrum W. Smith. His latest rant of extreme importance is about how government under Pres. This was very painful for the ex wife who had been wronged. He loved spending time at his ranch home with his family. He was the older brother of the movement's founder, Joseph Smith, and was killed with his brother at Carthage Jail where they were being held awaiting trial. ", "Descendants Celebrate 200th Anniversary of Hyrum Smiths Birth", Guide to Hyrum Smith's Missionary Journal, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, List of lynching victims in the United States, William "Froggie" James and Henry Salzner, Elijah Frost, Abijah Gibson, Tom McCracken, Thomas Moss, Henry Stewart, Calvin McDowell (TN), Thomas Harold Thurmond and John M. Holmes, Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore, Association of Southern Women for the Prevention of Lynching, Emmett Till Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act, The National Memorial for Peace and Justice, National Museum of African American History and Culture, "The United States of Lyncherdom" (Twain), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hyrum_Smith&oldid=1141283157, Presiding Evangelists of the Community of Christ, Apostles of the Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints), Converts to Mormonism from Presbyterianism, Counselors in the First Presidency (LDS Church), Latter Day Saint missionaries in the United States, Leaders in the Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints), Members of the First Presidency (LDS Church), Victims of religiously motivated violence in the United States, Articles with incomplete citations from October 2016, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles needing additional references from September 2016, All articles needing additional references, All Wikipedia articles written in American English, Latter Day Saint biography Infobox with missing parameters, Pages using infobox Latter Day Saint biography with unsupported parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, Called as Second Counselor in the First Presidency, Lovina Smith (16 September 1827 8 October 1876), who married Lorin Walker, Hyrum Smith (27 April 1834 21 September 1841), Jerusha Smith (13 January 1836 27 June 1912), Sarah Smith (2 October 1837 6 November 1876), who married Charles Emerson Griffin, Martha Ann Smith (14 May 1841 19 October 1923), This page was last edited on 24 February 2023, at 07:53. The Pearl of Great Price Seminar The Book of Mormon Seminar The Doctrine and Covenants Seminar rockslider Members 391 Gender:Male Location:Heber, Utah Author Grace is enough to the true evangelical because they will try to make things right regardless, on their own. I read an article about Hyrum Smith, the founder of the Franklin Planner, who publicly confessed to an extramarital affair. hyrum wayne smith excommunicated. I think Mormons strive to raise the bar, which leads to expecting more of leaders, less tolerance for sin, and then when there is humility and contrition, more tolerance to forgive and sympathize similar to your reaction of Hyrum Smiths story. Ida Smith, the great-great granddaughter of Hyrum Smith, who became convinced that Nemelka was called of God after reading The Sealed Portion, donated her plot to Nemelka. Thanks to the JST, Mormons do in fact feel entitled to judge, so long as it isnt unrighteous judgment. Yes yes, theres the doctrine&covenants section where were told to vote for honest and wise leaders, but were not living in a theocracy where morality is the ultimate reason for choosing a president. He was the older brother of the movement's founder, Joseph Smith, and was killed with his brother at Carthage Jail where they were being held awaiting trial. He served an LDS mission to Hawaii in 19[20]. The flat out hypocrisy with which Romney spews out his paranoia of fear and violence speaks to an unstable and compartmentalized mind. Too much psychological harm without any real payoff. The narrative has always been that he was Joseph's closest friend and confidante and thus should have been aware of his brother's lies and deceptions. 209; "Question three: What influence can the Adversary have over man in mortality? -Is dishonest Good cons need a few apparently true believers to get the fraud off of the ground. His books, seminars and presentations have been acclaimed by both American and international audiences. Since Evangelicals believe the Bible to be inerrant and unalterable, theyre just left with: Judge not, lest ye be judged. So perhaps we do feel we are entitled to judge others if we believe our judgments are just. ), great post. Interment will happen at the Gunlock Cemetery. -Decadent As to the link with polygamy, 80% of Mormons on the latest Pew survey considered polygamy a very serious sin, the worst one of those listed in the survey. He is everything that critics say of Romney making Newts declarations of conservatism hypocritical. BYU's L. Tom Perry Special Collections houses one of the finest collections of documents and manuscripts related to the early history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day . Yes, I think we do (though we probably shouldnt even the righteous judgement clause is for those in a position to judge). Joe deservedly gets a great deal of attention for being a grade-A sleazeball, but what was Hyrum's role in all of this. I do think we are harder on adultery, but I think in Newts case its more the hypocrisy on top of repeat offenses. Also, consider this: All three *witnesses* were eventually excommunicated from the Mormon church. He was quite upset by Newts behavior during his marriages. Smith died Monday in Gunlock, Utah, from cancer, according to an announcement Friday by FranklinCovey Co., the company he co-founded. (Im not sure when) I didnt realize hed written a book about it. He participated in the standard Basic Training followed by Advanced Infantry Training (AIT), NCO Academy (Non-Commissioned Officer Academy) and Officer Candidate School (OCS) finishing as the Honor Graduate and top in his class in all four trainings. If the GOP race were down to the three candidates who are not Romney (if Romney was out of it), Gingrich would be a real possibility as the GOP nominee, and thats frightening enough to me to give me regular nightmares. Term ended by removal of apostleship; was later excommunicated. This may have been one of the factors behind Dr. Nathan Smith treating Smith's brother Joseph's leg.[2]. Authoring several religious books throughout his time, Smith is best known for the books, '10 Natural Laws of Successful Time and Life Management' and 'What Matters Most.' He loved serving on the board of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College for several years. says that her husband did all this stuff and the bishop doesnt believe her well, if there is no evidence except for one witness who backs off, that is not enough to do anything under the two or three witnesses rule. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Reading between the lines, there was a general fear of pregnancy of supposedly unmarried women who might be impregnated because of plural marriage arrangements. Why? This council was formed by Joseph Smith in March 1844 and was continued by Brigham Young. He is preceded in death by his daughter, Sharwan Smith; 2 granddaughters: Shilo and Abby Shurtliff; sisters: Ruth Silver, Ida Smith, Lynn Partridge; and his parents, Joseph and Ruth Smith. Hyrum received a limited education, and established himself as a farmer. He was president in the wrong time for his set of skills, IMO. One wonders when political expediency goes to situational ethics. You just say you believe, and you are saved. Well, you can always ask him yourself, as he's been reincarnated and alive today in Salt Lake. Heres how we can tell. hyrum wayne smith excommunicated Smith's descendants have played significant roles in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In your opinion, why do Mormons dislike Newt. Hyrum never really retired; he just changed his focus of where he was spending his time. He died in 1823, but he was so revered by JS thatI have to wonder if he wasn't the initial impetus for some of it. Ill forego you comments and ad: Id better to keep out of US politics right? I think being on the side of all parties is right, whenever possible, since that is clearly the route God takes. Thats just not the way Mormons roll, and certainly not the leadership. hyrum wayne smith excommunicated - entredad.com Aside from being bff with Joseph and wearing the funky sunglasses, there's not much there to know. This site is designed to make many of the works of Dr. Andrus available to those who are interested. St. George, UT 84770 435-673-4221 435 . 1834 in Kirtland, Ohio died September . the daughter turns 18 and sleeps with her boyfriend and she gets exed. Smith was a direct descendant of Hyrum Smith, who died in 1844 alongside his brother, Mormon founder Joseph Smith, at the hands of an angry mob at the jail in Carthage, Ill. End-Times Visionary Julie Rowe Excommunicated - Wheat & Tares * He has served on several boards of directors and national advisory councils and has been the recipient of three honorary doctorate degrees. While it probably makes more sense to hold a person accountable for the repentance process of their own faith, our judgment is inextricably tied to our own faiths culture. Hyrum traveled with his wife Gail all over the world for both business and pleasure. Seems to me that its standard practice that leaders engaged in such sins are help to be doing something far more serious than were a regular lay member to be doing it. He also said he saw the angel Moroni. & Hyrum Smith & John Whitmer & Samuel H. Smith. Yet, if Ron Paul wins I wouldnt complain too much. He leaves behind his wife,. I too remember him from the 90s during the Clinton impeachment. Even Elder Bruce McConkie taught that there is a difference between receiving the "Gift of the Holy Ghost" and "the realization of that gift." A private Interment will be in the Gunlock Cemetery. So, why dont people here want to vote for Romney? Early life Hyrum was born in Tunbridge, Vermont, the second son of Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith. On June 27, 1844, the building was attacked by a mob of between sixty and two hundred men. hyrum wayne smith excommunicated Join Hyrum Smith, one of the most influential thinkers on modern time management, as he shares insights on productivity from his 50-year career. Hyrum is maybe the biggest the conundrum in the entire saga. "Many 'crazies' have come and gone and the Church has kept silent on them," Hyrum Smith noted in an e-mail. In 1831, he established a home in Kirtland, Ohio. Open acceptance of his own hypocrisy? My Defense Before the High Council - Latter-day Commentary After that, he was drafted an served in the U. S. Army as field commander of a Pershing missile battery in Germany. Books by Hyrum W. Smith - Goodreads Hyrum was one of the cast of characters. While attempting to barricade the door to prevent the mob from entering, Smith was shot in the face on the left side of the nose. One question: Hyrum made a reference to Joseph Smith teaching that Enoch held the keys over the ministry of translated personages. The company sold its consumer products unit, which makes the Franklin Planner, to a private equity firm in 2008. It's clear to me that Smith had a flash of genius that his religious narrative was as good as anything else. The evangelical does not need to be harder on ones sin as a Mormon. Hyrum Smith: The Mildness of a Lamb, the Integrity of Job He calls Romney the Massachusetts Moderate. Finally, I think the inability of Huntsman to get any traction among Mormons probably says more about how our religion leads us to view candidates. And hes smug. Is it that he went on the offensive against our guy? History of the Church, 3:414. Mitt might be a political opportunist to some degree, but at least I believe he sincerely wants to help and represent those he governs. He explained his abundance mentality in a 2017 interview: The minute we are able to look into the mirror and honestly say, I have sufficient for my needs, at that point, you are wealthy. Hyrum (12 March 1924 - 23 October 2016) was born and raised on a farm South of Rexburg, Idaho. His eldest son, John Smith, served as the church's Presiding Patriarch from 1855 to 1911. They had six children together. See the Book of Abraham. Hyrum Smith (February 9, 1800 - June 27, 1844) was an American religious leader in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the original church of the Latter Day Saint movement. I think people who support him are projecting upon him capabilities and strengths he doesnt have. Song. When his parents lost their home in Palmyra, Hyrum took them into his homehis father and mother and five siblings, ages seven to twenty-one, and Oliver Cowdery. A forum for ex-mormons and others who have been affected by mormonism to get support and share news, commentary, and comedy about the Mormon church. Honestly Romneys the best of an uninspired set of candidates. He was a master communicator, combining wit and good storytelling to teach principles that incite lasting personal change. He married Gail Cooper in 1966, while on leave. He was born October 16, 1943 to Joseph Fielding and Ruth Pingree Smith in Salt Lake City, Utah. It is about this relationship with God that drives a real believer of Jesus to do the things that most churches will try to impose on their practitioners such as the excommunication from the church and then some process of prescribed accomplishments to get back into a good standing. Im sure if Br. Newt was responsible for the brilliance of the Contract with America and nationalizing congressional races. 3 Born at Tunbridge, Orange Co., Vermont. He was martyred with this brother in Carthage, Illinois, in June of 1844. Amongst the Mormon men, the sense of shame and self loathing for the same kinds of behavior, ie one night stands on a business trip, led them to admit the issue first to their wives and then to their bishops. From what I have consistently heard, the biggest Mormon objection to Newt is his serial adultery, especially because the wives he cheated on and eventually left were gravely ill at the time he left them for younger women. I dont consider the reaction to Newt being so much about Mormons, so much as it proves just how full of shit Evangelicals are it comes to their pro-family rhetoric. After he gives his standard answer to the question, he gives the guys who asked it a reading assignment: And it came to pass, as [], Newt Gingrich: The Indispensable Republican., Mormon History Association Awards Nominations: Deadline Feb.15. How can an adulterer be called of God? In the interim period, the person is considered to be without benefit of saving ordinances, so should that person die during that time, s/he is left out in the cold from a salvation perspective. Bain experience is understood and valued, not reviled, in the financial services sector. So what was the deal with Hyrum Smith? : r/exmormon - reddit 2. Hes also responsible for much of the failure of the Contract with America as well as a lot more. I imagine there are a few Ron Paul Mormon die hards. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Ive no complaints when people come back. I do think that regardless of his personal morality or lack thereof, his narcissism is a bigger issue in the race to POTUS. There, she ran into her cousin, Julie Taggart, who told her she had left The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, founded by Joseph Smith, the brother of Ida Smith's great-great grandfather, Hyrum Smith. Newt represents that. This thought lessened my respect for him even further. As a result of this decision, his wife of 32 years divorced him and he was excommunicated from the LDS Church. Quoted in Pearson H. Corbett, Hyrum SmithPatriarch (1963), 164. He's something of an enigma, isn't he? Blacks Didn't Sin in Pre-existence. If you can be saved simply by saying God, I am a sinner then why cant you be forgiven simply by saying God, Im sorry.. Hyrum Andrus. Pres. In 1983 he co-founded the Franklin Quest Company to produce the planner and train individuals and organizations in the time management principles on which the planner was based. Many Mormons watched in morbid fascination during the South Carolina primary as Evangelicals ultimately rallied around the nearly forgotten corpse of Newt Gingrichs campaign. Is our repentance process evidence of Mormons being more focused on works whereas to Evangelicals, grace is sufficient? They see him as inauthentic and definitely NOT one of us especially when put up against very orthodox Romney. 7. It seems most reacted very strongly against Huntsmans lax Mormon practice and identity. The Salt Lake Tribune, Inc. is a 501(c)(3) public charity and contributions are tax Theres no one else who can say what I can say. When polled, Iowa Republicans (sporting a strong Evangelical base) were asked how they viewed Newt and Mitt: A leading Democratic pollster, Peter Hart, recently conducted focus groups with Republican voters and made an astonishing discovery: voters, when asked which family member Newt most reminded them of, said their good uncle or their kindly grandfather. However, when asked who Mitt Romney most reminded them of, it was their Dad who was never home. Hyrum Smith | Religious Studies Center Proof of things long past using 19th century science looked to be impossible. Sickening. That doesnt mean he wont be a good President. I think we are more tough on adultery, yes, and more judgmental in general. CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (. I once took a religion class at BYU from Lloyd Newell (Music and the Spoken Word guy) on Teachings of the Living Prophets. Because of his prominence in the community, this confession cost him dearly, including being excommunicated from his church and financial losses to his business. Smith received a limited education, and established himself as a farmer. Santorum has some huge negatives due to his pretty extreme social conservativism. Recipient Public Service award Association Federal Investigators, Washington, 1988. By contrast, Evangelicals do not require baptism, accepting transfer baptism from other Protestant sects. Law's papers. List Of Descendants Of Joseph Smith, Sr. And Lucy Mack Smith - Hyrum Smith. I do consider that too in my own evaluation. Look, he isnt my first choice either. Signed: Christian Whitmer & Hiram Page & Jacob Whitmer & Joseph Smith, Sen. Peter Whitmer, Jun. His infidelity was not limited to his wives, and Ill not give him the chance to do it again. Being saved means accepting Christs atonement and your role as a sinner. Following his time in England as a missionary, he was drafted into the United States Army. People who knew both of them say that Hyrum would occasionally chastise Joseph for joking around too much and being too informal and trusting people too easily. Having been formerly married to a philanderer like Newt I wouldnt trust him as far as I could throw him if he will lie and cheat on his multiple wives, Im sure he will lie and cheat on me as President of the U.S. Hyrum Smith is as big a dirtbag as Newt. The entire Smith household were set to profit if Joe's gold bible business took off. We all know we all sin, but not feeling remorse, trying to cover it up, or not owning up to the consequences makes us think the sinners should have to payor it is not fair to the rest of us. Part 10. Newt is safely other and makes a reasonable scapegoat for a members frustration with lying, cheating, and hypocrisy. And who has the best hair. A visitation will be held Monday, December 2, 2019 from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at Tuacahn Center for the Arts Ballroom, 1100 North Tuacahn Drive, Ivins, Utah. It meant the world to him. It really does not matter how traumatic these prescribed accomplishments get, people are very capable of enduring quite a lot of pain and suffering in order to maintain the appearance of something, hoodwinking the establishment in thinking they are ready. I think most Mormon Democrats (and I imagine that there are many who will cross party lines to vote for Romney) think Romney is definitely competent. Not necessarily. That. He does pander a lot to the tea party despite being a well established Washington insider, albeit with a Nero-like sense of self-importance. Were in a republic where finding anyone who can actually solve problems and not be a divisive ideologue is a godsend. In much of the Evangelical world, however, that kind of pomposity is actually expected among leaders (Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, et. Great talk that explores suicide, excommunication, forgiveness, and the love of the Savior By Hyrum Smith (the Franklin Covey one) Close. A ban has been issued on your username. 2 Farmer, cooper. As I examined my own Romney revulsion, I asked myself how I would feel if Romney were LDS? he is perhaps best remembered for being killed with his brother Joseph Smith, Jr .Lovina Smith Walker born September 16, 1827 in Manchester, New York died October 8, 1876 in Farmington, Utah Territory Mary Smith born June 27, 1829 in Manchester, New York died May 29, 1832 in. Heres the thing though, there arent going to be any new candidates. Hyrum used to always say "If you want to really known your religion, you need to study the men that knew Joseph". This belief is based entirely on one small anecdote: When Joseph was asked how exactly he translated the Book of Mormon, he never gave any details, he only said that he did it by the "gift and power of God." It kinda puts in perspective just how weird some people think we are. I got into a similar discussion with some Evangelical aquaintances shortly after the Casey Anthony verdict. Nonetheless, I stand by my statement that Mormons have a big problem with adultery, and I do think we are dismissive of what we consider incomplete repentance, including other faiths repentance steps. Hyrum Wayne Smith, age 76, of Gunlock, Utah, died surrounded by his family in his home at Eagle Mountain Ranch, on Nov. 18, 2019. They really believe that what they believe is really real and that is Jesus is real. However it seems to me theres a big difference between writing a book on ones sins and attempting to overcome them and being put back in leadership positions. In 1834, under the direction of Joseph Smith, he recruited members for a militia, Zion's Camp, and traveled with the group to the aid of the Latter Day Saints in Missouri. They went on to raise six children and have 24 grandchildren. And great questions. The Hyrum Smith in question started a company that did scheduling books and then various tapes on leadership and sales and the like. I am not going to vote for Romney, but our country is in a better place if people like Romney or Huntsman are the GOP nominees. In 2000, it was estimated that Smith had over 31,000 living descendants. In pink tops and white pants, women celebrate free period products becoming available in Utahs state buildings, Proposal to boost Utah bar licenses gets smaller with another round of cuts by lawmakers, Moab, Park City cry foul as Utah lawmakers target rules for vacation homes, According to a biography posted on the Franklin Planner website, Hyrum and Gail Smith Endowment at Tuacahn. But that wouldnt bring out the collective Mormon hand-wringing weve seen, since most Mormons would be in danger of going over the cliff with the GOP. I don't have a link, but I think those come from Wm.